Over the Thanksgiving holiday in late November, an owner reportedly hit an outcropping of rocks in the Bahamas, ejecting three people from the tender and sending them all to the hospital.

Without factual knowledge of the situation, the incident still brings up valid safety and liability questions, so we used it to spark discussion about how to handle owner requests when safety is at hand and how to tactfully tell the boss no. Is there anything the captain or crew should have done to prevent or abort the series of events that led up to the accident? How can other captains avoid getting into a similar situation?

"Owners are people in power, but captains are the people in power when it comes to the boat," one captain said. "The owner will not accept the captain saying 'no' to him."

"So we have to say instead, 'let’s see what we can do'," another captain said.

"It doesn’t always have to be a hostage situation," said a third. "The captain is hired by the owner for his knowledge and ability to operate the boat safely. The owner has the responsibility to the captain to let him operate the vessel safely."

As always, individual comments are not attributed to any one person in particular so as to encourage frank and open discussion. The attending captains are identified in a photograph on page A13.

Discussion began on the details surrounding the accident at Staniel Cay and a captain's liability when an owner gets in an accident in the tender. The captains in attendance all agreed that they are responsible for all vessels affiliated with the yacht, including tenders and water toys. But they also acknowledged that others often operate a yacht's various vessels without the captain or a crew member aboard.

Still, the captain shoulders the ultimate responsibility and, most likely, liability, these captains agreed.

“Even if you are confident that the person you let take it [the tender] is competant, you are still responsible as the ultimate responsible party for the vessel and all its toys,” a captain said.

Isn't there still something captains should do to prevent accidents like this?

"An accident is an accident, by definition," a captain said.

"I can’t prevent someone from getting in an accident, but I sure can be prepared to deal with it when something happens," another captain said.

So how to you handle it when an owner asks you to do something -- or not do something -- that is contrary to your judgment?

"I had an owner once who liked to drink a lot," one captain said. "I always made the mate go with him. Ninety-nine times out of a hundred, he went along with it."

“I’ve had guys who were heavy drinkers and refuse to take the mate," another captain said. "They say, I’ll be OK."

Most of the captains reported working with a similar owner or charter guest who insisted they would be OK. But they said that usually, if they insist, the owner will allow a crew member to accompany them, if not drive them where they are headed.

"I tell him, 'You have to understand, this is my license on the line'," a captain said. "If something happens, even if somebody hits you, I’m screwed. It’s not for you, it’s for me."

That usually works in getting stubborn owners to take a crew member with them, he said.

For the times when it doesn't work, the captains mentioned that they have told the owner or guest that they couldn't get the tender started, or even dismantled it by removing a fuse.

“On charter, you can get away with that, but not with an owner," one captain said. "The owner tells me to go to hell and fix it."

"What they don’t understand is that when they take the tender and something happens, they’ve just taken the means for us to go out and get them," another captain said.

There was a lengthy discussion on who is responsible for making sure the owner and guests return to the boat safely.   

"If someone is going away from the vessel, are we expecting them back at midnight, 2 a.m., 3 a.m.?" one captain said. "If they’re not home by that time, what do I do?"

One of the options discussed was installing a tracker on the tender, so at least crew on the mother ship would know if the tender is docked or moving and where it was.

“It’s a cheap investment and at least it gives you some information," this captain said.

"If the owner leaves the boat, there has to at least be one person who stays up until that guest or owner comes back," another captain said. "There’s no debate about that. There has to be."

Is that true even on a smaller vessel with just one or two crew who are expected to be up and working at dawn?

"The size of the boat is not important," this captain said. "It has to do with the responsibilityy of the captain."

These captains were discreet about the seemingly unreasonable requests they've entertained in their careers. Sometimes they acquiesce and manage the risk, other times they get out of it by offering an alternative.  

"The owner is the owner," one captain said. "Either you say 'yes' or he’ll find a captain who will."

"But I’d rather have my license and have to look for a job than not have my license," another captain said.

As often happens in our lunches, captains talked idealistically about how they would respond in a certain situation, what they will allow and what they won't. But it isn't always so black and white, and several captains admitted that was true in this scenario.

"Drugs onboard are black and white," one captain said. "Those are easy decisions."

Are they? What if drugs are discovered in a cabin? Do you instantly end the charter and put everyone ashore at the next port?

The captains acknowledged that they wouldn't go to that extreme initially. One captain would have the drugs removed and talk to the guest in question, remind them of their charter contract and point out the seriousness of the infraction, were they to be boarded and the drugs discovered.

"I kept charter guests with drugs once," one captain said. "I had to. The owner needed that charter. I took the chance."

So there is a point at which you weigh the risk. Yes, the owner drinks, but he’s a competent boat handler and he’ll be OK. Sometimes you do go against your better judgment, don’t you?

"It’s depends on my relationship with the owner," one captain said.

Several captains have dealt with owners or guests having hookers aboard. 

"I just gave the stews the night off," one captain said. "It’s not outrageous. It’s his boat and he can enteretain his guests however he sees fit. We were at the dock so there were no safey issues. I’m not going to judge his decisions as long as it's not a safety issue."

"When there’s no safety issue, I let them make mistakes," another captain said. "One owner wanted me to floor it through a shallow area. I said, if I do that, we’ll get grounded [on the mud]. He said do it anyway and I did and we grounded in the mud. Hey, it’s his boat and his money. If he wants to pay to repaint the bottom, I can’t stop him. I can only tell him what is going to happen and if he doesn’t believe me, he doesn’t believe me."

"What we often have is the subjective situation where Captain A may have different skills or local knowledge from Captain B," another captain said. "It seems that a captain is pandering to the owner, but maybe he’s used to the fog and low visibility, or maybe he’s familiar with the currents, and he can handle a somewhat tricky situation. I would never take a boat over Deveil's Backbone but I know guys who do it three or four times a day."

These captains agreed that there are tougher decisions than drugs onboard, specifially what to do when the owner wants the boat moved and the conditions are risky. One captain told the story of his relief captain being moored in rough seas. All the guests were seasick and the owner wanted the boat moved immediately.

"It was 3-5 [feet] in the mooring field, which meant it was 12-15 out at sea," this captain said. "Just getting the anchor up was dangeous in that swell."

But the owner threatened the captain, who was young in his career and got scared. He moved the boat.

"Nothing happened and they got out of there, but it could have gone either way," the captain said.

"Not one of us likes making a decision that could come out either way," another captain said.